Somehow, while working very hard, I was Googling stuff and came upon this image.
In the Latter Day Saint movement, Kolob is a star or planet mentioned in the Book of Abraham as being nearest to the throne or residence of God. The literal existence and the exact nature of Kolob is a controversial topic in Latter Day Saint movement theology, as is the Book of Abraham, which has not been canonized by the Community of Christ and several other denominations. However, the idea of Kolob has had an influence in the theology and culture of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church).
So since I am sort of a "newerish" member, maybe someone could explain this to me? I mean, I read the Wiki definition, but what do you guys think? I had no idea.Now we sound more like Scientology and their weird planet "Xenu." What gives?
30 comments:
The first sentence in the definition is all I've ever know about it. There's a hymn about it too. Its one of my favorites. :)
I always learned that it was the star nearest the planet where God lives. Nothing more to it than that. I agree with Heather--the hymn "If You Could Hie to Kolob" is beautiful. it's about seeing where God lives and the peace that could bring. It has a great, I dunno, Scottish or Celtic maybe, sound to it.
Really, I don't think there's much else to know. I think strict LDS people (ie, not the Community of Christ, etc) view this as true.
As for sounding cultish or weird, we do believe in a Heavenly Father with a physical body. He has to live somewhere. This modern translation of ancient scripture just names the general area. That's all.
I converted from mainstream Christian churches to being LDS in 2005. I read everything I could get my hands on, both positive and negative, for a year and a half before I converted. I have to say that as I studied all of the scriptures talks, websites etc., that I found it amusing that other religions ridicule the Mormon religion for their beliefs. I find it amusing because if someone came from a background of never hearing of a God etc. or reading the Bible, if that person were to read the Bible, they would likely laugh at everything in the Bible and find everything in there inconceivable. So, I would say don't let it bother you what people might say about another planet. It is their own limited view that makes impossible for them to fathom there could be another planet. Just because our scientist and astronomers lack the tools need to see beyond out atmosphere doesn’t mean that other planets and worlds don’t exist.
I don't lose any sleep over what Kolob is. It's pretty low in the list of important things to know about mormons. Frankly, I don't care about Kolob, and I think the song is pretty weird.
Only so many things you can "put on the back shelf" before it gets very full and comes crashing down......
You think thats weird, go to this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWwXmB9I75g and tell me how crazy this is! From a movie "Plan 10 from Outer Space" made in the 80's or early 90's.(Sorry, you will have to copy and paste I dont know how to make it hyperlink)
.
From a Church-written Q&A.
Actually its nothing to worry about. There are other things more important to your salvation then worrying about Kolob.
I agree with MH. Stupid song! As a missionary, we always pleaded with choiristers to not sing the song in sacrament just because there is alot of deep doctrine in the song that would scare off ppl.
Dirthead~
So because it's "deep doctrine that might scare others off" we should just ignore it? She asked a fairly good question and it seems like all anyone wants to say is "don't worry about it". Maybe we should worry about it. It's one of many, many disturbing or absurd "doctrines" that was taught and suppressed or not talked about much anymore. I think someone owes her an honest answer, not fluff. Unfortunately, I cant give her much, but "don't worry about it" is a cop-out.
No, its not a cop out. You should worry more about faith and repentance before diving into deep doctrine. Once you get those down tight, then start to worry about the stuff that doesnt matter to your salvation!
And just so you know, I PMd her regarding the subject.
Faith and repentence dont come out of thin air. They are based on principles of the Gospel. We have to be taught certain points and then take the rest of Faith if we so choose. It doesn't just magically appear. But when confusing things come about, all I ever hear is have "Faith". I don't believe God sends confusing messages to us to test us. That shows a mean and vindictive God who is essentially trying to trick us, and I don't believe that's how He is. So I guess we can agree to disagree. Telling people not to worry about things is not only a tool to keep people from critical thought, but causes severe cognitive dissonance when they do research themselves using church resources that severely contradict eachother.
And Dirthead, what does you PMing her have to do with anything?
**deleted and reposted for spelling and minor content change.
It means I gave her explanation of Kolob without posting it here.
All I am saying is there are alot of ppl out there who claim they "know" deep doctrine but yet when they explain their knowledge, it screws with peoples basic understanding of the principals of the gospel. All because they are giving personal interpretations of what they believe to be true (speculation).
If deep doctrine was so vital to our understanding of the gospel, then it would be taught during Gospel Doctrine, but its not. We hear the same things in church week in and week out. All because we as a body of the church have a hard enough time doing the simple things in life. Why do we need to worry about deep doctrine that doesnt necessarily have anything to do with the basic principals?
I personally find deep doctrine to be extremly fascinating, but yet, have to take what alot of people say with a grain of salt because sometimes things just dont add up. Thats just my take on it.
I think we should all be educated in our beliefs, but on the same hand, need to be careful with whats out there, and what ppl have to say.
Sorry spencer, I'm agreeing with dirthead on this one. There are plenty of other things that are more pertinent to our salvation. When you read the explanation of the facsimile #2 (the Egyptian style pictire in the book of Abraham) it gives a brief explanation of Kolob, but most of it says that explanations of the figures "will be given in the own due time of the Lord." This tells me that I don't need to worry about this yet, but focus on the "simple" things and how I can be better. Milk before meat, right?
You mean the facsimile that all other experts in the field that are not LDS(which far outnumber those that are LDS "experts") say is a ordinary funerary text? Is that the one you are referring too? I dont want to be rude or hurtful, but please please please do some research on that before you come to me and expect me to see it as "fact" or "evidence" of your position. I know wikipedia is not the end all of knowledge, but go to this link and just see.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Abraham (link uses Mormon and NonMormon sources alike)
Link wont work, just wikipedia and search Book of Abraham.
spencer,
Your analysis (and most everyone else on the internet) of the Book of Abraham is incorrect. Several years ago, I wrote a long response to an an issue of the Awake! (Jehovah's Witness) magazine that was "all about Mormonism." I discovered the following about the Book of Abraham:
Section 11: Mormon Holy Writings. You'll have to scroll down a tiny bit, to the heading, "Pearl of Great Price."
Mr. Kearney
Interesting read I must say. But it comes from 4 sources, 3 of which are just publications the Church puts out, not actual researchers of any type. The first and only actual person is a Professor at BYU. 1 source, attached to the Church and has much to lose if he goes against it. So saying to me "Your analysis (and most everyone else on the internet) of the Book of Abraham is incorrect." is a bit misguided. 1 source, from BYU, doesnt sway me from the hundreds of others who oppose that view in his field. He may be completely right about all that was said, but that doesnt change the situation in the slightest for me, as it didnt address the nature of the book(as described by Joseph) and the history we teach in any way. I dont want to get into a "faith destroying" discussion here, if you want discuss it further and understand my thought processes you can email me at basketballjoker@yahoo.com
spencer:
No, we can discuss this here, as others may well need to hear what is said.
The important point from my article was that Joseph Smith gave a very detailed description of the papyri that the Book of Abraham was translated from. One of the most important things that Joseph Smith pointed out in his description was that there were smaller writings, in red, on the papyrus. What has since been discovered, long after Joseph Smith's time, is that Egyptian priests used red ink to write notes between the texts on their papyri, specifically, notes for the individuals who were performing the ceremony that accompanied the text. This is a verified fact in Egyptology. This also supports the theory that Facsimile 2 contains information related to the temple and cosmology.
Joseph Smith had an extensive collection of Egyptian artifacts, aside from the Book of Abraham papyrus. Most of it was destroyed in a fire. The Book of Breathings text was, indeed, found among the remaining artifacts, but it does not match the detailed description of the Book of Abraham papyrus. People opposed to the LDS Church, always ready to jump on anything that might be spun negatively, quickly jumped to the erroneous conclusion that this particular papyrus was the one that Joseph Smith claimed to have translated the Book of Abraham from.
Sources?
I'm not sure what good it'll do to provide you with sources, since you have, in essence, already told us that nothing written by a Mormon could possibly be held as reliable.
Nevertheless, I will provide you with some excellent resources that have been well-researched.
1) Has the source of the Book of Abraham been found? [LDSFAQ]. Point 1 clearly shows that Joseph Smith's collection of papyri contained much more than what was discovered in 1967. Point 2 discusses the relationship, or lack thereof, between the Book of the Dead and the Book of Abraham.
2) The Book of Abraham entry in the Encyclopedia of Mormonism is another excellent resource, You may want to skip down to page 137, where the discovery of the the fragments in 1967 is mentioned, and the subsequent claim that these were the sources for the Book of Abraham. If, on the other hand you want to actually discover for yourself how many ways in which the Book of Abraham relates to proper Egyptology and current scholarly understanding of Abraham, then I recommend you read the entire entry.
But remember to watch out! These were written by Mormons! Lies! They're all lies, I tell ya!
...or, whatever else you might be telling yourself.
"I'm not sure what good it'll do to provide you with sources, since you have, in essence, already told us that nothing written by a Mormon could possibly be held as reliable."
When did I ever say that? I know, I know, you used the term "in essence" to cover yourself, but its a cheap trick. I see right through it. This is a typical smear tactic that people use, attack the person, not the issue. I just asked for sources so I could read up on them myself and make a more educated guess. Mormons write many good things, they also write many things that are pure crap. Mormons are a subset of the human race, so it stands to reason there are good ones, bad ones, ignorant ones, healthy ones, intelligent ones, etc etc etc. But Im done engaging you, grow up. I have an opinion different than yours, doesnt make me bad or wrong or an "apostate". Im a Mormon, so by your reasoning any thesis paper or report I wrote in college was self defeating as it wasnt reliable or true to myself. Love the logic there. You strike me as someone who gets white-hot mad when anyone questions your beliefs...should look into the reasons for that, may tell you something. I, on the other hand, just take the information and assimilate it and move on. Perhaps a little Christlike love instead of vile anger is in order on your end, hmmm?
If there is anything you want to know about Kolob, you can read Abraham 3:1 - 17 in the Pearl of Great Price. This is the ONLY information that the LORD gives us regarding Kolob. Anything else that you may have heard and read, either from Wikipedia OR from anybody else discussing this in this post, is THEIR OWN INTERPRETATION. Always turn to the scriptures. You can always find the answers to your questions through scripture study and prayer.
Interesting Mormon Beliefs:
1. Mormons believe god was a man and then Aliens made him a God.
2. Mormon "god" lives near a planet/star called Kolob.
3. That God got basically physical with Mary. So she was not a virgin.
4. Jesus and Satan are brothers.
5. Black people are black because they stayed neutral and didn’t decide between Jesus or Satan so they were cursed with black skin by Elohim.
6. The also believe Native Americans are Israelites.
7. That Joseph Smith is a descendant of Jesus.
8. That when they die, they will become the God of their own planet.
9. That you need to know the secret Mormon password which is a handshake of some sort for when you meet Elohim (God), Jesus and Joseph Smith.
10. That you are more likely to get into the celestial kingdom if you have at least 10 wives not just one.
11. It is a Mormon tradition to baptize the dead.
12. They believe that the Garden of Eden was in Missouri in the USA.
13. That dinosaur fossils were created by Satan to deceive the world about the truth of creation.
14. Satan controls all the water in the world.
15. Jesus was married and he had more than one wife and a bunch of kids.
16. That only Mormon men can perform miracles and only the men but the women could receives these miracles.
17. They wear weird white underwear/ spiritual armor.
I don't mean to offend you in any way, but we mormons don't believe most of the things you have in that list. I don't know where you got them.
4 is true because we were all brothers and sisters in heaven (because we were all created by god) so satan and Jesus are brothers. I'm their sibling too.
8 is true because if you make it to heaven, you can send your kids to another planet to be tested, like god did for us.
and, 11 is true, but it isn't anything like you probably think it is. We don't actually baptize real dead bodies or anything.
I know this is all kinda confusing and stuff-if you want more info on mormons, here's a link:
http://www.mormon.org/
you should at least take a look around before you decide for yourself about mormonism. :)
you can't just disregard the entire perverse history of the mormon church (which isn't particularly old... and much of these perverse practices held until the 1970s or 1980s), and simply say "a different time, a different place". that's just ludicrous. at some point you have to take responsibility for your beliefs, and your actions. I mean, until 1979 the mormon church officially believed blacks were sub-human. so - i challenge anyone who was an adult prior to 1979... what did you do to reverse this heinous policy?
oh, i also find the posthumous conversion of people particularly offensive. especially those who died for their religion...
and, the absurd beliefs of mormonism are on par with the absurd beliefs of scientology... i'm not sure whether they're any more or less ridiculous than regular christian beliefs, but - at least those evolved through oral tradition over 3000 years as a way to explain the world in which we live - as opposed to some delusional pedophile's way to aggregate as much power, women, and money as possible.
Anonymous, it's very brave of you to post disparaging comments about other people's faith anonymously.
Your accusations are old and worn out. We have been hearing them for almost 200 years now. However, let's set the record straight about a few things:
A) the "Mormon church" never officially "believed" or taught anything derogatory about Blacks. Some Mormon individuals may have held such beliefs (which were largely held at the time), but they did NOT get them from Mormon doctrine. In fact, the allowance of Blacks into the LDS Church was one of the reasons the extermination order of Missouri Gov. Lilburn Boggs was issued, prompting severe abuse and violence against the Mormons and driving them out of the state. The local "Christians" believed that the intermingling of Blacks and Whites was inexcusable. The Mormons, on the other hand, were not only baptizing Blacks, but treating them as equals and rallying for their freedom from slavery long before Abe Lincoln jumped on the bandwagon. The freedom of Blacks was one of Joseph Smith's main platforms when he ran for President of the United States.
B) There is no such thing is "posthumous conversion of people." This is a distortion of the doctrine of Baptism for the Dead. NO ONE can force salvation on anyone else. NOT EVEN GOD. Our actions and choices play a determining role in that process, as the scriptures tell us. BUT, we CAN perform earthly ordinances in behalf of people who have died, specifically because they may WILLINGLY accept the Gospel after it is taught to them in the Spirit World. Baptism for the Dead are performed with the understanding that the departed may also NOT accept either the Gospel or the baptism done in their behalf.
C) The other "Anonymous" was correct when he/she told you that most of your accusations were false and/or distortions. The two examples I have addressed should demonstrate that.
I am actually writing a paper about Kolob and I will publish it...after much research and carefull contemplation this is what I have found;
Kolob is described as a govorning body, the sentence apears to suggest a planet or star, however Kolob is also called "the great one","the governing one". Well, if u know anything about astronomy for something to be a superior body governing all known stars and planets,the governing body would have to be more then just a star as the scriptures could be suggesting. May I theorize, Kolob is neither a star or a planet but a large gravitational object namely a black hole, the massive black hole at the center of our own galaxy. If this is true then, the Throne of God lies near the galactic center of our galaxy the milky way, which puts the God of Abraham the God of the LDS church near the galactic center of our galaxy near the constellation sagitarious. A place where massive stars and some of the oldest stars in the milky way reside. U heard it hear first.
kevinomni
Post a Comment
There's very little comment moderation at Normal Mormons as everyone has a voice that should be heard! (Just keep it clean why doncha?)